Show Dates

8 30 2003 Towson, MD The Recher Theater w/ Dog Fashion Disco & Motograter
8 27 2003 Jacksonville, FL Jack Rabbits CANCELLED
8 25 2003 Tallahassee, FL Floyds CANCELLED
8 23 2003 Louisville, KY  the Lighthouse on Story Ave w/ Summerhell, Memento, MSD, SEN, One With Misery, Institution CANCELLED?
8 21 2003 Norfolk, VA WNOR Radio Show  CANCELLED
8 17 2003 Winooski, VT Higher Ground CANCELLED
8 13 2003 Portand, ME the Asylum w/ Memento, Unloco & Hotwire CANCELLED
Rescheduled to Orono, ME @ Ushuaia
Chimaira headlines for Nothingface
8 11 2003 Buffalo, NY Darien Lakes OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
8 10 2003 Poughkeepsie, NY The Chance w/ Unloco, Memento
8 9 2003 Hartford, CT Meadows Music Theatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
8 7 2003 Camden, NJ Tweeter Center OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
8 6 2003 Farmingdale, NY Downtown w/ Unloco, Memento, Hotwire, Depswa, All Styles Wicked
8 5 2003 Scranton, PA Montage Mountain OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
8 3 2003 Columbus, OH Polaris Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
8 2 2003 Milwaukee, WI Alpine Valley OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
8 1 2003 Lacrosse, WI the Warehouse w/ Memento, Unloco & Hotwire
7 31 2003 Indianapolis, IN Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 30 2003 Pittsburgh, PA Post. Gazette Pavilion OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 24 2003 Detroit, MI DTE Entergy Music Theatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 22 2003 Cleveland, OH Blossom OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 21 2003 Grand Rapids, MI the Intersection w/ Memento, Unloco & Hotwire
7 20 2003 Chicago, IL Tweeter Center OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 19 2003 Minneapolis, MN  Float. Rite Park OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 18 2003 Omaha, NE Ranch Bowl w/ Memento, Unloco & Hotwire
7 17 2003 Kansas City, MO Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 16 2003 Pittsburgh, KS Foxtown City Limits w/ Memento, Unloco & Hotwire
7 15 2003 St. Louis, MO UMB Bank Pavilion OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 12 2003 Seattle, WA  White River Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 9 2003 Sacramento, CA Sleep Train Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 8 2003 Mountain View, CA Shoreline Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 7 2003 Las Vegas, NV Huntridge Theatre CANCELLED
7 5 2003 Devore, CA Hyundai Pavilion OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 3 2003 San Diego, CA Coors Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 2 2003 Phoenix, AZ Phoenix Cricket Pavilion OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
7 1 2003 Tuscon, AZ Rialto Theatre w/ Memento, Unloco & Hotwire
6 29 2003 Dallas, TX Smirnoff Music Center OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
6 28 2003 San Antonio, TX Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre OZZFEST 2nd STAGE
6 25 2003 Tulsa, OK The Other Side w/ Sworn Enemy
6 23 2003 Little Rock, AR Vinos w/ Sworn Enemy & Hotwire
6 21 2003 Raleigh, NC The Brewery w/ Sworn Enemy
6 12 2003 London, ENGLAND The Barfly   
6 10 2003 Berlin, GERMANY Sage Club   
6 9 2003 *******************************SKELETONS RELEASED IN EUROPE
6 8 2003 Hamburg, GERMANY Club Logo   
6 7 2003 Nürnberg, GERMANY Rock im Park   
6 6 2003 Nürburgring, GERMANY Rock am Ring   
6 4 2003  London, ENGLAND The Barfly   
 
        
5 30 2003 Pittsburg, PA Club Laga w/ Hotwire
5 28 2003 Toledo, OH Swig w/ Hotwire , Grade 8
5 27 2003 Guelph, ON Trasheteria w/ Hotwire , Grade 8
5 26 2003 Toronto, ON The Opera House w/ Hotwire
5 24 2003 North Hampton, MA Pearl St w/ Hotwire
5 22 2003 Farmingdale, NY Downtown w/ Hotwire
5 21 2003 Reading, PA Soundwaves w/ Eastcide
5 20 2003 Buffalo, NY The Continental w/ Eastcide
5 18, 2003 Cleveland Flats, OH Peabody's Down Under w/ Hotwire
5 17, 2003 St. Andrew's Shelter Detroit, MI w/ Hotwire
5 16, 2003 Sauget, IL POPS w/ Hotwire
5 15 2003 Clinton, IA Pig Pen w/ Hotwire
5 11, 2003 Nashville, TN Exit / In w/ Hotwire
5 10, 2003 Chattanooga, TN The Bay w/ Hotwire
5 9, 2003 New Orleans, LA The Shim Sham Club   
5 6, 2003 Orlando, FL The Social (Sapphire Club)   
5 5, 2003 Boynton Beach, FL Ovation / Viper Room   
5 4, 2003 Tampa, FL The Orpheum,   
5 2, 2003 Jacksonville, FL Imperial Lounge   
5 1, 2003 Atlanta, GA The Masquerade   
4 28, 2003 Florence, SC Club Hypnotik w/ Confliction & Isabells Gift CANCELLED
4 27, 2003 Raleigh, NC The Brewery   
4 26, 2003 Atlantic Beach, NC Ziggy's By The Sea   
4 25, 2003 Winston-Salem, NC Ziggy's   
4 23, 2003 Baltimore, MD Fletcher's   
4 22, 2003 Boston, MA Axis w/rubikon & biopop******SKELETONS RELEASED
4 21, 2003 New York, NY The Knitting Factory w/Shat ****SKELETONS RELEASE PARTY****
SKELETONS TOUR
 
3 29 2003  Phoenix,AZ Celebrity Theatre w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 28 2003 Tucson,AZ Rialto Theatre w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 26 2003 Anaheim,CA House of Blues w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 23 2003 San Diego,CA 4th&B w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 22 2003 Los Angeles,CA House of Blues w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 21 2003 San Francisco,CA Fillmore w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 19 2003 Portland,OR Roseland w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 18 2003 Seattle,WA Northgate w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
3 16 2003 Reno,NV New Oasis w/ MINISTRY, Lollipop Lust Kill & Motograter
2003 MINISTRY TOUR
12 28 2002 Brooklyn, NY North Six w/ scar culture this show was CANCELLED Matt had Shoulder Surgery from childhood baseball injury
11 30 2001 Washington DC 9:30 Club w/Donnybrook, Dog Fashion Disco & Diecast “Everything I Hate” played at this show
11 3 2001 Old Bridge, NJ Birch Hill Nite Club “Everything I Hate” played at this show
10 23 2001 Los Angeles, CA Key Club w/ Diecast
10 22 2001 Santa Ana, CA Galaxy Theater w/ Diecast & Dust To Dust
10 20 2001 Tempe, AZ Bash on Ash w/ Diecast
10 19 2001 Tuscon, AZ The Rock w/ DetoX
10 17 2001 El Paso, TX Club 101 w/ Diecast & Dust To Dust
10 13 2001 Houston, TX Fitzgeralds w/ Diecast & Skinlab
10 11 2001 Dallas, TX Canyon Club-Bronco Bowl theater w/ Diecast & Dust To Dust
10 10 2001 New Orleans, LA Howlin Wolf w/ Diecast
10 9 2001 Tallahassee, FL Cow Haus w/ Diecast
10 7 2001 Nashville, TN 328 Performance Hall w/ Diecast
10 6 2001 Boynton Beach, FL Orbit w/ Diecast
10 5 2001 St. Petersburg, FL Goldstar @ Janus Landing w/ Diecast
10 4 2001 Atlanta, GA Earthlink Center Stage Theater      w/ Diecast
10 3 2001 Spatanburg, SC Ground Zero w/ Diecast & Skycamefalling
10 1 2001 Charlotte, NC Tremont Music Hall w/ Diecast & Skycamefalling
9 30 2001 Raleigh, NC The Brewery w/ Diecast & Skycamefalling
9 29 2001 Winston-Salem, NC Ziggy's w/ Diecast & Skycamefalling
9 28 2001 Atlantic Beach, NC Ziggy's By The Sea w/ Diecast & Skycamefalling
DARKEST HOUR TOUR (CANCELLED due to 911)
8 9 2001 Albuquerque, NM El Rey Theater CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
8 8 2001 Tempe, AZ Bash on Ash CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
8 7 2001 Los Angeles, CA Whiskey CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
8 5 2001 San Diego, CA Cane's CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
8 4 2001 Pomona, CA Glass House CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
8 3 2001 San Francisco, CA Great American Music Hall CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
8 1 2001 Portland, OR Pine St. Balcony CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
7 31 2001 Seattle, WA Graceland CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
7 28 2001 Duluth, MN Tap Room CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
7 27 2001 Minneapolis, MN The Quest CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
7 26 2001 Madison, WI The Annex CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
7 25 2001 Detroit, MI St. Andrews w/ Vision of Disorder
7 24 2001 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's w/ Vision of Disorder
7 22 2001 Baltimore, MD Recher Theater w/ Vision of Disorder &Dog Fashion Disco
7 21 2001 Irving Plaza Irving Plaza w/ Vision of Disorder
7 20 2001 Portland, ME State Theater w/ Vision of Disorder
7 19 2001 Worcester, MA Palladium w/ Vision of Disorder w/ Nullset, Eastcide, Dog Fashion Disco
7 19 2001 New York, NY Hammerstein Ballroom (DATE MOVED?)
7 18 2001 Buffalo, NY  Showplace Theater w/ Vision of Disorder
7 16 2001 Syracuse, NY Lost Horizon CANCELLED w/ Vision of Disorder
7 14 2001  Grand Rapids, MI Intersection w/ Vision of Disorder
7 13 2001 Toronto, ONT The Opera House w/ Vision of Disorder (*For All the Sin video shoot*)
7 12 2001 Columbus, OH Newport Music Hall w/ Vision of Disorder
7 10 2001 Louisville, KY Phoenix Hill w/ Vision of Disorder
7 8 2001  Raleigh, NC The Brewery w/ Vision of Disorder
7 7 2001 Charlotte, NC Tremont Music Hall w/ Vision of Disorder CANCELLED
7 6 2001 Atlanta, GA The Masquerade w/ Vision of Disorder CANCELLED
7 3 2001 New Orleans, LA Parish at House of Blues w/ Vision of Disorder CANCELLED
7 2 2001 Little Rock, AR Juanita's w/ Vision of Disorder CANCELLED
Vision of Disorder tour
6 30 2001 Minneapolis, MN Quest w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 29 2001 Combined Locks, WI Ryan’s Ballroom w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 28 2001 Chicago, IL House Of Blues w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 24 2001 Norfolk, VA The Norva Theatre w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 23 2001 Winston-Salem, NC Ziggy’s w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 22 2001 Columbia, SC  Elbow Room w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 21 2001 Atlantic Beach, NC Ziggy's By The Sea w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 19 2001 Charleston, SC The Music Farm w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 17 2001 Chattanooga, TN The Bay w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 16 2001 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's Front Room w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 15 2001 Detroit, MI  St.Andrews Hall w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 14 2001 Indianapolis, IN Emerson Theatre w/ From Zero & Dog Fashion Disco
6 12 2001 Cleveland, OH Agora Ballroom w/ From Zero , Dog Fashion Disco & Cold Hand of Christ
Nothingface Tour with From Zero and Dog Fashion Disco
6 5 2001   Bill Gaal Rejoins band   
5 27, 2001 Washington DC RFK Stadium WHFS Festival
Mudvayne, Spineshank and Nothingface will be making up two previously canceled dates later this month, they are as follows:
4 24 2001 Dallas, TX - Deep Ellum Live
4 25 2001 Houston, TX - The Engine Room
5 18, 2001 Burgettstown, PA Post-Gazette Pavilion @ Star Lake WXDX Festival
5 16 2001       
5 15 2001 Providence, RI Lupos Heartbreak Hotel w/ Staind SOLD OUT
5 14 2001 Philadelphia, PA Electric Factory w/ Staind SOLD OUT
5 12 2001 Burgettstown, PA Post-Gazette Pavilion @ Star Lake 105.9 X-Fest Buzz: Poets, Crazytown, Everlast, Fuel, Grapevine, (HED)P.E., Sinomatic, Staind, Tantric, The Clarks, The Juliana Thoery and Trai
5 12 2001 Providence, RI Lupo's   
5 11 2001 New York City, NY Roseland Ballroom w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 10 2001 Baltimore, MD   w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 9 2001  Cleveland, OH Nautica Stage w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 8 2001 Norfolk, VA Norva w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 7 2001 Charlotte, NC Tremont Music Hall w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank(***Raleigh, NC @ the Ritz?***)
5 6 2001 Myrtle Beach, SC House Of Blues w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 4 2001 Birmingham, AL Five Points w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 3 2001 Nashville, TN 328 Performance Hall w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 2 2001 Atlanta, GA Masquerade w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
5 1 2001 Ft. Myers, FL Club Atlantizz w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 29 2001 Orlando, FL House Of Blues w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 28 2001 Tampa, FL   w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 27 2001 Miami, FL Bayfront Park w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 25 2001 Tallahassee, FL The Library w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank(***Jacksonville, FL @ edge 2000?***)
4 24 2001 New Orleans, LA House of Blues w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank(***Talahassee, FL-@ The Moon?***)
4 22 2001 Tulsa, OK Brady Theatre/Cain's Ballroom w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 21 2001 Albuquerque, NM Sunshine Theatre w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank(**Albuquerque Convention Center?***)
4 20 2001 Phoenix, AZ Web Theatre w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 18 2001 Las Vegas, NV House Of Blues w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank(***Los Angeles, LA Palladium?***)
4 17 2001 San Diego, CA Cane's Ballroom w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 16 2001 Los Angeles, CA Palace / House of Blues w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
4 14 2001 San Francisco, CA Maritime Hall w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank(***Fillmore?***)
4 13 2001 Portland, OR Roseland Theatre w/ Disturbed,, Mudvayne & Spineshank
DISTURBED TOUR
4 2 2001 Orlando, FL Hard Rock Live w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
4 1 2001 Miami, FL Sunrise Music Theatre w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 30 2001 Atlanta, GA Tabernacle w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly SOLD OUT
3 29 2001 Biloxi, MS Mississippi Coast Coast w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 27 2001 McAllen, TX  Villa Real Convention Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 25 2001 Houston, TX Astro Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 24 2001 Corpus Christi, TX Concrete Street Amphitheater w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 23 2001 Dallas, TX Fair Park Coliseum w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 21 2001 San Antonio, TX Freeman Coliseum w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 20 2001 Oklahoma City, OK The Myriad w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 18 2001 Indianapolis, IN Pepsi Coliseum w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 16 2001 lLewiston, ME Central Maine Civic Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 15 2001 Boston, MA Tsongas Arena  w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly SOLD OUT
3 14 2001 Towsen, MD Towsen Center Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 13 2001 Poughkeepsie, NY Mid Hudson Civic Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 11 2001 Philadelphia, PA First Union Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 10 2001 New York, NY Hammerstein Ballroom w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 9 2001 New York, NY Hammerstein Ballroom w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly SOLD OUT (*Matt also interviewed for DCN radio*)
3 8 2001 New York, NY Hammerstein Ballroom w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly SOLD OUT
3 7 2001 Fords, NJ Vintage Vinyl In-Store Performance and Signing
3 6 2001 Pittsburgh, PA Mellon Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 5 2001 Dayton, OH Hara Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 3 2001 Chicago, IL UIC w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 2 2001 Louisville, KY Louisville Gardens w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
3 1 2001 Detroit, MI The Palace of Auburn Hills w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 27 2001 Toledo, OH Sports Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 26 2001 Ft. Wayne, IN Memorial Coliseum w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 24 2001 Grand Rapids, MI Deltaplex w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 22 2001 Peoria, IL  Civic Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 20 2001 Minneapolis, MN Target Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 19 2001 Madison, WI Dane County Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 18 2001 Green Bay, WI Brown County Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 16 2001 Kansas City MO Hale Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 15 2001 St Charles, MO Family Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 13 2001 Denver, CO Denver Coliseum w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 12 2001 Casper, WY Casper Events Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 10 2001 Nampa, ID Idaho Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 9 2001 Seattle, WA  Mercer Arena w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 8 2001 Portland, OR Memorial Coliseum w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 6 2001 San Jose, CA Events Center w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 4 2001 Las Vegas, NV House Of Blues w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 3 2001 Los Angeles, CA Universal Amphitheater w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 2 2001 Mesa, AZ Mesa Amphitheater w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
2 1 2001 Albuquerque, NM Convention Center  w/ Pantera, Morbid Angel & Soulfly
PANTERA / MORBID ANGEL / SOULFLY / NOTHINGFACE
1 27 2001 Atlanta, GA The Masquerade   
1 26 2001 Chattanooga, TN The Bay w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 24 2001 Fort Lauderdale, FL Culture Room w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 23 2001 St. Petersburg, FL State Theatre w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 22 2001 Jacksonville, FL Jack Rabbit's w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 20 2001 Asheville, NC Asheville Music Zone w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 19 2001 Charlotte, NC Tremont Music Hall w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 18 2001 Winston-Salem, NC Ziggy's w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 16 2001 Huntington, WV Empire Club w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 15 2001 State College, PA The Crowbar w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 13 2001  New York, NY Irving Plaza w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 12 2001 Syracuse, NY Lost Horizon w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
1 11 2001 Buffalo, NY The Showplace w/ Systematic & Boiler Room
Nothingface/Systematic/boiler room
Bill Gaal leaves and Jerry Montano joins
12 16 2000    Boston, MA Axis w/ ENDO
12 15 2000  Washington, DC 9:30Club w/ ENDO
12 14 2000   Philadelphia, PA Trocadero w/ ENDO
12 13 2000 Pittsburgh, PA Club Laga w/ ENDO
12 10 2000  Lawrence, KS The Bottleneck w/ ENDO
12 9 2000 Oklahoma City, OK  Diamond Ballroom w/ ENDO
12 8 2000 St Louis, MO Creepy Crawl w/ ENDO
12 6 2000    Omaha, NE Ranch Bowl w/ ENDO
12 3 2000 Boise, ID Bogles w/ ENDO
12 2 2000     Pocatello, ID Twenty/Twenty w/ ENDO
11 30 2000      Portland, OR Pine Street Theater w/ ENDO
11 29 2000 Seattle, WA Graceland w/ ENDO
11 28 2000 Vancouver, BC Starfish Room w/ ENDO
11 25 2000 San Francisco, CA Maritime Hall w/ENDO & Machinehead, Nonpoint & 40 Grit
11 24 2000   Hollywood, CA Whisky A GO GO w/ENDO & Machinehead  
11 22 2000 Las Vegas, NV  Sanctuary w/ENDO & Machinehead  
11 21 2000 San Diego, CA Brick by Brick  w/ ENDO,  & Machinehead
11 18 2000   Lubbock, TX Liquid 2000 w/ ENDO
11 17 2000  Dallas, TX Canyon Club w/ ENDO
ENDO TOUR
 
10 20 2000 Baltimore, MD Fletcher’s Relative Ash
10 19 2000 Scranton, PA Tink's 171H, 191H w/ AMEN
10 18 2000 NYC, NY The World w/ AMEN (pre-CMJ music festival show)
10 17 2000 Allentown, PA  Crocodile Rock w/ AMEN
10 15 2000 Madison, WI Barrymore's w/ AMEN
10 14 2000 Cincinnati, OH Bogarts w/ AMEN
10 13 2000 Grand Rapids, MI The Intersection w/ AMEN
10 12 2000 Des Moines, IA Hairy Mairy's w/ AMEN
10 11 2000 Minneapolis, MN 400 Bar w/ AMEN
10 10 2000 *****************************************RELEASED: VIOLENCE
10 8 2000 Sacramento, CA Bojangle's w/ AMEN
10 7 2000 San Francisco, CA Maritime Hall w/ AMEN
10 6 2000 Los Angeles, CA Whisky A Go Go w/ AMEN
10 5 2000 Tucson, AZ Big Fish Pub w/ AMEN
10 4 2000 Las Vegas, NV Sanctuary w/ AMEN
10 3 2000 Las Vegas, NV Sanctuary w/ AMEN
10 2 2000 Denver, CO Bluebird Theatre w/ AMEN
9 30 2000 Lubbock, TX Liquid w/ AMEN
9 29 2000 Dallas, TX The Galaxy  w/ AMEN
9 28 2000  Austin, TX The Metro w/ AMEN
9 27 2000  Houston, TX Fitzgerald’s w/ AMEN
9 25 2000 Orlando, FL  Sapphire Supper Club  w/ AMEN & ENDO Nothingface absent
9 24 2000 Atlanta, GA Masquerade w/ AMEN
9 23 2000 Winston-Salem, NC Ziggy's w/ AMEN
9 22 2000 Charlotte, NC Tremont Music Hall w/ AMEN
9 21 2000 Raleigh, NC Brewery NC w/ AMEN
9 20 2000 Virginia Beach, VA The Abyss w/ AMEN
9 19 2000 Richmond, VA Alley Katz w/ AMEN
9 17 2000 Old Bridge, NJ Birch Hill w/ AMEN & Mudvayne Relative Ash, Factory 81,  Workhorse Movement, One Minute Silence
9 16 2000 Worcester, MA Palladium w/ AMEN & Mudvayne Relative Ash, Factory 81,  Workhorse Movement, One Minute Silence
9 15 2000 Portland, ME The Asylum w/ AMEN & Workhorse Movement CANCELLED
9 14 2000 Cohoes, NY Saratoga Winners w/ AMEN
9 12 2000 Milwaukee, WI The Rave Bar w/ AMEN
9 11 2000 St, Louis, MO The Creepy Crawl w/ AMEN & Workhorse Movement
9 10 2000 Chicago, IL Metro w/ AMEN & Workhorse Movement, From Zero
9 9 2000 Detroit, MI Harpo's w/ AMEN
9 8 2000 Cleveland, OH Agora Ballroom w/ AMEN
AMEN TOUR
8 26 2000 Winston-Salem, NC Ziggys Stuck Mojo & Black Acid Disco
8 25 2000 Charolette, NC Tremont Music Hall   
8 24 2000 Birmingham, AL The Nick   
8 22 2000 Lafayette,LA Shanahan's   
8 21 2000 Little Rock, AR Juanita’s   
8 18 2000 Lawrence, KS    (Grenada Theatre (?)
8 16 2000 Albuquerque, NM The Launch Pad   
8 15 2000 Tucson, AZ Big Fish Pub   
8 13 2000 Phoenix, AZ Mazanita Speedway Tattoo the Earth
8 12 2000 San Bernadino, CA Orange Pavilion Tattoo the Earth
8 10 2000 Denver, CO Red Rocks Amphithreatre Tattoo the Earth
8 6 2000 Dallas, TX Fair Park Coliseum Tattoo the Earth
8 5 2000 Houston, TX Pasadena Fairgrounds Tattoo the Earth
8 4 2000 Mercedes, TX Mercedes Showgrounds Tattoo the Earth
8 2 2000 San Antonio,, TX Far West Tattoo the Earth
7 30 2000 Pontiac, MI Phoenix Plaza Parking Tattoo the Earth
7 29 2000 Milwaukee, WI The Rave Complex Tattoo the Earth
7 28 2000 Somerset, WI Floatrite Amphitheatre Tattoo the Earth
7 27 2000 Des Moines, IA Waterworks Park Tattoo the Earth
7 26 2000 Chicago, IL The World Golf Dome Tattoo the Earth
7 24 2000 Cleveland, OH The Stage At Nautica Tattoo the Earth
7 23 2000 Boston, MA Suffolk Downs Tattoo the Earth
7 21 2000 Scranton, PA Coors Light Amphitheater Tattoo the Earth
7 20 2000 East Rutherford, NJ Giants Stadium Tattoo the Earth w/ Metallica
7 18 2000 Lawrence, KS Burcham Park Tattoo the Earth
7 15 2000 Portland, OR Portland Meadows Tattoo the Earth (Feat. Stone Temple Pilots)
Tommy Sickles first show with Nothingface
Tattoo The Earth Tour 2000, with Slipknot, One Minute Silence, (hed)p.e., Sevendust, Slayer, Sepultura, Nashville Pussy, Nothingface, The Workhorse Movement, Downset, Mudvayne, Famous, Systematic, Hatebreed, Professional Murder Music, Full Devil Jacket and Relative Ash:
 
8 6 1999 Memphis, TN TJ-Mulligans (played outside)
8 4 1999 Cincinnati, OH Bogart's   
8 03 1999 Detroit, MI State Theater   
8 02 1999 Cleveland, OH Nautica Stage   
7 31 1999 Boston, MA Avalon Ballroom Moved to Worcester Palladium
7 30 1999 New York, NY Roseland Ballroom Matt sings Thieves on ministry encore BAND SIGNS DEAL WITH TVT RECORDS TONIGHT.
7 29 1999 Philadelphia, PA Electric Factory   
7 28 1999 Washington DC 9:30 Club   
MINISTRY 1999
5 30 1999 Somerset, WI Floatrite Amphitheatre “Edgefest VI”  
5 13 1999 New York, NY Downtime Bar w/ Stuck Mojo
5 1 1999 Winston-Salem, NC Ziggy's w/ Stuck Mojo
4 17 1999 Baltimore, MD Fletcher's w/ Stuck Mojo
4 9 1999 Harrisonburg, VA JM's Bar w/ Stuck Mojo
4 3 1999 Nashville, TN Exit / In w/ Stuck Mojo
4 2 1999 Memphis, TN Barristers w/ Stuck Mojo & Season to Risk, Molly McGuire & Further
3 31 1999 Louisville, KY Toy Tiger w/ Stuck Mojo
3 30 1999 Lexington, KY A1A w/ Stuck Mojo
3 28 1999 Lawrence, KS Grenada Theatre w/ Stuck Mojo & Nile
3 27 1999 St. Louis, MO Karma Club w/ Stuck Mojo
3 24 1999 Des Moines, IA Uncle Frog’s w/ Stuck Mojo
3 19 1999 Columbus, OH Al Rosa Villa w/ Stuck Mojo
3 18 1999 Akron, OH Ron's Crossroads w/ Stuck Mojo
3 17 1999 Cincinnati OH, Top Cats w/ Stuck Mojo
3 14 1999 Old Bridge, NJ Birch Hill Night Club w/ Stuck Mojo
3 13 1999 Worcester, MA Commercial Street Café w/ Stuck Mojo
3 12 1999 New York, NY Coney Island High w/ Stuck Mojo
3 11 1999 New London, CT El-N-Gee Club w/ Stuck Mojo
3 10 1999 Baltimore, MD The Vault w/ Stuck Mojo
3 6 1999 Atlanta, GA Masquerade w/ Stuck Mojo
STUCK MOJO TOUR
2 14 1999 South Daytona, FL Neon w/ Stuck Mojo
2 13 1999 Ft. Lauderdale, FL The Fubar w/ Stuck Mojo & Belt Fed
2 12 1999 Orlando, FL Fairbanks Inn   
2 11 1999 Orlando, FL Fairbanks Inn w/ Stuck Mojo
2 10 1999 Jacksonville, FL Milk Bar w/ Stuck Mojo
2 7 1999 Raleigh, NC The Brewery w/ Stuck Mojo & Belt Fed
2 6 1999 Raleigh, NC The Brewery w/ Stuck Mojo Belt Fed
2 5 1999 ??? Winston-Salem, NC Ziggys w/ Stuck Mojo & Belt Fed, The View Point
2 4 1999 Columbia, SC New Brookand w/ Stuck Mojo
2 3 1999 Wilmington, NC Metropolis w/ Stuck Mojo
2 2 1999 Lawrence, Ks The Bottleneck w/ Fear Factory
1 31 1999 Minneapolis, MN First Avenue w/ Fear Factory
1 30 1999 Chicago, IL Cabaret Metro w/ Fear Factory
1 29 1999 Detroit, MI Harpo's w/ Fear Factory
1 24 1999 Washington DC 9:30 Club w/ Fear Factory
1 23 1999 Charlotte, NC Tremont Music Hall w/ Smithwick Machine & Stuck Mojo
1 22 1999 Clinton, Ma St. John's Gym w/ Fear Factory
1 21 1999  Old Bridge, NJ Birch Hill Nightclub w/ Fear Factory
1 19 1999 New York, NY Irving Plaza w/ Fear Factory System of a Down Spineshank
1 18 1999 New York, NY Irving Plaza w/ Fear Factory
1 17 1999 Carborro, NC Cat's Cradle w/ Fear Factory
1 16 1999 Atlanta, GA The Masquerade w/ Fear Factory
1 14 1999 Houston, TX Numbers w/ Fear Factory
FEAR FACTORY System of a Down Nothingface Spineshank Earth Crisis TOUR
12 23 1998  Baltimore, MD The Vault w/ Margret Heater
12 12 1998 Wilmington, NC Starlight   
12 11 1998 Raleigh, NC The Brewery   
12 10 1998 Hope Mills, NC Coyotes   
12 8 1998 Tampa, FL Rubb   
12 6 1998 Atlanta, GA The Point   
12 5 1998 Nashville, TN 8th Day Club   
12 3 1998 Columbia, SC New Brookland   
12 2 1998 Virginia Beach, VA Jenro’s   
12 1 1998 Richmond, VA Area 51   
11 22 1998 Chicago, IL Fireside Bowl w/ Sam Black Church & Underdog
11 21 1998 Lexington, KY The Firehouse w/ Sam Black Church and Demonspeed
11 20 1998 Bowling Green, KY Diggler’s Sam Black Church, Sixth Floor
11 19 1998 Cleveland, OH The Flying Machine w/ Sam Black Church CANCELLED
11 19 1998 NA NA Sevendust/Clutch/Stuck Mojo/Ultraspank (this date is mentioned in a tour diary)
11 18 1998 Cincinnati, OH Sudsy Malone’s w/ Sam Black Church
11 17 1998 Huntington, West VA The Stoned Monkey w/ Sam Black Church
11 15 1998 Portsmouth, NH Elvis room w/ Seventh Rail Crew, Eastcide, Gasket ,Sam Black Church
11 14 1998 Worcester, MA The Palladium Sam Black Church 10th Anniversary Show w/ Tree, Crisis, Blood for Blood, Gang Green Kilgore, Diecast, Eastcide,
11 13 1998 Skowhegan, ME The Bear Trap Uncle Jack, Cradle, Puzzleface
11 11 1998 Portland, ME The Asylum   
11 8 1998 North Hampton, MA Pearle Street Night Club w/ Sam Black Church, Gargantua Soul CANCELLED
11 7 1998 North Bradford, CT The Warehouse w/ Sam Black Church /Gargantua Soul
11 6 1998 New York, NY Downtime Bar “CMJ Music Festival” w/ Living Sacrifice, Drown, Static-X, Clay People, NOK, Spineshank
11 5 1998 New London, Ct El N Gee Drown, Minus
11 4 1998 Asbury Park,  NJ The Saint w/ Sam Black Church, Lift Off, World of Trouble
10 24 1998 Baltimore, MD Fletcher's Margaret Heater, ¼ Inch Microbomb
10 23 1998 Providence, RI Lupo’s Heartbreak Hotel with Stained & Kilgore
10 22 1998  NYC, NY Coney Island High with Stained/Kilgore/Boiler Room
10 21 1998 Boston, MA Mama Kin w/ Stained & Kilgore
10 18 1998 Philadelphia, PA Pontiac Grille Famous Monsters
10 10 1998 Worcester, MA Espresso Bar w/ Another Society, Progression & Evil People
10 3 1998 Raleigh, NC Ritz w/ Corrosion of Conformity, Incubus, System of a Down
10 2 1998 Hope mills, NC Coyotes   
9 28 1998  Lafayette,LA Grant Street Dance Hall-   
9 27 1998 Atlanta, GA The Masquerade   
9 25 1998 Nashville, TN Indienet   
9 24 1998 Raleigh, NC NA   
9 22 1998 *************RELEASED: AUDIO GUIDE TO EVERYDAY ATROCITY
9 19 1998 NA NA Hatebreed CANCELLED
9 17 1998 Cambridge, MA Middle East Night Club w/ Scissorfight, Shadows Fall
9 12 1998 Washington DC 9:30 Club w/ Crownsayers
8 11 1998 ****************************************RE-RELEASED PACIFIER
8 8 1998 Worcester, MA The Palladium “Sk8:98 Festival” Earth Crisis, V.O.D., Murphy's Law, H20, Tree, Shootyz Groove, Eastcide, Scissorfight, H8 Machine, Forced Fed Shovel Head
8 8 1998 MA Club Escape   
8 7 1998 New London, CT     
8 5 1998 New York, NY Coney Island High   
7 17 1998 Washington DC The Bayou   
5 23 1998 Somerset, WI Apple River Amphitheatre “Edge Fest V”
4 25 1998 Baltimore, MD Baltimore, MD Mickey's Spring Festival w/  Click, Pimp Daddy Longstockin' Sixty Watt Shaman & Johnny Love & Speed, Compression
2 10 1998 Jacksonville, FL unknown CANCELLED
2 6 1998 Baltimore, MD Fletchers Kilgore, The City Bleeds, Sixty Watt Shaman
1 24 1998 Baltimore, MD Capital Ballroom Superbowl of Hardcore w/
Murphys Law, VOD, Earth Crisis
and ten other bands.......
12 23 1997 Baltimore, MD Bohager's “Music Monthly" Magazine Benefit show w/ Compression, Click, & Sixty Watt Shaman
11 29 1997 Baltimore, MD Fletcher's w/ Kilgore Smudge, Compression  & Sixty Watt Shaman
9 28 1997 Cambridge, MA Middle East Night Club “Sam Black Church Release Party” w/ Miltown, Big Wig, Seventh Rail Crew
9 4 1997 New York, NY Downtime Bar “CMJ Music Festival” w/ System of a Down, Dub War, Snot
8 29 1997 Washington DC 9:30 club w/ Dog Fashion Disco, Karma to Burn, 60-watt shaman
8 22 1997 Baltimore, MD Fletchers   
8 8 1997 Worcester, MA Espresso Bar w/ Staind, Shed, Seventh Rail Crew
8 1 1997 Worcester, MA Sir Morgans Cove w/ 5 Seconds Expired, East Coast Psychos & Warhorse
7 12 1997 Baltimore, MD Eastside’s Weequay #2 MUSIC SHOWCASE w/ Ganja Bros., No Saner & Compression etc.
7 8 1997 New York, NY Coney Island High w/ Snot & Mindset
6 21 1997 Atlanta, GA The Masquerade w/ Stuck Mojo & Tree
6 3 1997 Lafayette, LA Shanahan’s w/ Power Tribe
5 13 1997 Knoxville, TN Mercury Theatre w/ Warzone, Serene Scream and Synge,
5 2 1997 Baltimore, MD Fletchers w/Kilgore Tree & Stillsuit
4 2 1997 Baltimore, MD Fletchers   
3 14 1997 Rockville, MD Manny's with Shine & blatant disregard
3 8 1997 New York, NY     
3 6 1997 Washington DC The Capital ballroom w/ Stuck Mojo
3 4 1997 Baltimore, MD Fletchers w/ Stuck Mojo
1 3 1997 Baltimore, MD Fletcher's w/ Grievance & Compression
11 19 1996 VA  Jacks w/ Machine Head
10 3 1996 Hollywood, CA The Coconut Teaszer Club Sunset Blvd for the F-  Musicfest (foundations forum)
10 2 1996 Hollywood, CA (release party in CA  hotel room?) ********************PACIFIER RELEASED (?)
9 6 1996 Baltimore, MD Fletchers   
8 16 1996 VA Jacks w/ Bile
8 15 1996 VA Jacks w/ Bile
8 1 1996 Baltimore, MD Fletchers   
7 27 1996 Baltimore, MD Hammerheads   
7 26 1996 College Park, MD The Paragon   
7 14 1996 Rockville, MD Mannys   
7 6 1996 Virginia Beach,VA Scullys   
7 5 1996 Wilmington NC The Far Side   
7 3 1996 Myrtle Beach, SC Head Room   
6 28 1996 Washington DC Asylum in Exile   
6 26 1996 Baltimore, MD 8x10 w/ Click
6 22 1996 Rockville, MD Mannys w/ Click
6 8 1996 Washington DC Capital Ballroom   
5 30 1996 Baltimore, MD Memory lane   
5 26 1996 Myrtle Beach, SC Head Room   
5 25 1996  Charlotte, NC Jeremiah's   
5 24 1996 Wilmington, NC The Far Side “Wilmington Exchange Festival” with 99¢, Flicker, & the Side Door Johnnies
5 23 1996 Raleigh, NC Grove   
5 20 1996 VA Jacks   
5 18 1996 Washington DC Black Cat   
4 20 1996 Rockville, MD Mannys   
4 12 1996 Richmond, VA Twisters w/ Sacred Reich
4 6 1996 Raleigh, NC Players   
3 27 1996 Washington DC 15 min   
3 24 1996   Josh Mosh   
3 22 1996 Washington DC Asylum in Exile   
3 1 1996 Charlotte, NC Jeremiah's   
2 29 1996 Atlanta, GA Wreck Room   
2 28 1996 Savannah GA Velvet Elvis   
2 27 1996 Wilmington, NC The Far Side   
2 25 1996 Richmond, VA Twisters   
2 24 1996 Raleigh, NC Players   
2 22 1996 Baltimore, MD Memory Lane   
1 11 1996 Washington DC Asylum in Exile   
12 31 1995 Rockville, MD Mannys   
12 30 1995 Frederick, MD Belles   
12 29 1995 Providence, RI The Living Room   
12 28 1995 Newcastle, DE The Coda   
12 16 1995 College Park, MD The Paragon   
11 18 1995 Rockville, MD Mannys   
11 9 1995   Club Midnight   
10 29 1995 Rockville, MD Mannys   
10 14 1995 College Park, MD The Paragon   
9 26 1995 Wilmington, NC The Mad Monk   
9 24 1995 NC     
8 31 1995 Newcastle, DE The Coda   
8 19 1995 College Park, MD The Paragon   
Matt Holt on Vocals
12 31 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
12 22 1994 Washington DC Black Cat   
12 21 1994   Winter Solstice Festival   
12 11 1994 Rockville MD Mannys   
12 9 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
11 25 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
11 18 1994   Chambers   
11 8 1994 Washington DC 15 min.   
10 28 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
10 26 1994 Atlanta, GA Wreck Room   
10 25 1994 Wilmington, NC The Mad Monk MOD & Pro-Pain
10 18 1994 Austin Tx The Back Room w/ Crowbar
10 15 1994 El Paso, TX Sassos   
10 1? 1994 Tucson, AZ New Orleans Nightclub   
10 12 1994 Los Angeles, CA Bourbon Square   
10 8 1994 Sacramento, CA Sound Wave   
10 7 1994 Sacramento, CA Sound Wave   
10 6 1994 San Francisco, CA Cats Grill   
10 1 1994 Portland, OR Elis   
9 29 1994 Bremerton, WA East Side Tavern   
9 25 1994 Seattle, WA Jabba Jump   
9 24 1994 Seattle, WA Captain Cooks   
9 18 1994 Frederick, MD Belles   
 
FIRST TOUR OUT WEST
        
9 16 1994 College Park, MD The Paragon   
9 15 1994 Washington DC Black Cat   
9 9 1994 Baltimore MD Midway   
9 7 1994 Virginia Beach, VA Insect Club w/ Type-O-Negative
9 3 1994 Virginia Beach, VA Vampire Room   
8 27 1994 College Park, MD The Paragon   
8 19 1994 Baltimore, MD Memory Lane   
8 16 1994 Newcastle, DE The Coda   
8 13 1994 Rockville, MD Mannys   
8 6 1994 Raleigh, NC Snookers   
8 5 1994 Raleigh, NC Snookers   
7 30 1994     103.1 party
7 29 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
7 27 1994 Virginia Beach, VA Insect Club   
7 16 1994 Washington DC The Bayou   
7 9 1994 College Park, MD The Paragon   
7 3 1994 VA Nicks   
7 2 1994 Rockville, MD Mannys   
6 25 1994 College Park, MD The Paragon   
6 24 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
6 19 1994 Frederick, MD Belles   
6 18 1994 Columbia, MD The Merriweather Post Pavilion   
6 12 1994 Rockville, MD Mannys   
6 11 1994 Washington DC Black Cat   
6 8 1994   Cafe Tattoo   
5 29 1994 VA Nicks   
5 27 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
5 21 1994 Rockville, MD @ Mannys   
5 20 1994   Breakers   
4 15 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
4 9 1994 College Park, MD The Paragon   
4 6 1994 Washington DC The Bayou w/ Prong
4 2 1994 Rockville, MD Mannys   
3 26 1994 Baltimore, MD The Rage   
3 23 1994 Baltimore, MD  8x10   
3 18 1994 Baltimore, MD Steeltown   
3 11 1994 Baltimore, MD  Midway   
3 10 1994 Washington DC  Black Cat   
3 6 1994 Rockville, MD  Mannys   
3 4 1994 Baltimore, MD A.L. Gators   
2 26 1994 Baltimore, MD Midway   
2 25 1994 Rockville, MD Mannys

 


Hey guys, I have DVD Bootlegs to trade (DVD for DVD) , if you are interested we could trade online for a Nothingface DVD not on my list, check it out: http://wickedbootleg.blogspot.com/2010/03/1999-03-13-comercial-street-cafe.html

I have DVD of other bands too in the same web page, if anyone is interested in a trade (DVD for DVD) , my E-Mail is adidas-rock@hotmail.es , greetings from chile :)

To the sick,
I got the ball rollin' getting these NF shows onto dvd. I will get them online asap!  And just to warn you a couple of these shows have pretty good quality, but there are a couple that sound like ass! Be patient, it could be a few days.

Gnarley! I am Stoked just thinking about seeing unseen NF doing their thing. You are a good Egg @everythingtonothing.

the_sick

anyone have dvd's of any show of Nothingface?

Wicked,
I have a dvd with the show from 10/23/98 in Providence Rhode Island. I also have an old vhs tape with 4 shows on it from 1999-2000. I'm really technology retarded and don't know if it's possible to get these other shows on dvd from the vhs tape. I would really like to get these shows out into everyone's hands that want them or at least post the shit on the internet for all to view. Can you help the retard(me)?

I was waiting for someone else to chime in but...

I've got the hardware and software to do the conversion (no DVD recorder here), and wouldn't mind helping out.  Although one tape with 4 shows sounds less than a great source.  Most low gen sources either from the Master or 1st gen usually are 1 or 2 shows per tape in SP mode.
Anyways, I was trusted with the PRONG archive, so I have some credibility as far as doing what is asked and returning the source material.

Here's the PRONG videos I did
http://www.youtube.com/removethesite

http://www.milwaukeemediaduplication.com/

or

414.778.0362

818 N. 109th Street
Milwaukee WI 53226

or google some places near you and bring it to a video tranfering business. spend a lil money and get it transfered..us NF Fans need to see these vids. $ shouldnt be no object to see a part of history..Be cool

well one way you could do it is by running the VCR with the tape in it through a DVD recorder and just record it to the blank DVD. the tape will have to play all the way through and you cannot stop it or you will have pauses and everyone including yourself with think "oh shit that sucked". but there you go I'd love to see it sometime

yes, it's possible but you have to have the right equipment (and I don't know what you need, maybe someone here knows...) but there are some people who do this and charge a little for it (VHS to DVD) then, just rip it to your pc as I think you already know...

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